Venneh Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Okay, I've kind of got to respect Kurt Busiek for this. On Defenders: From the Marvel Vault #1: This may be one of the greatest Defenders stories ever told. Or it may be a total trainwreck. Or, just possibly, both. Or, you know, somewhere in between, there, but who sells comics with wishy-washy statements like "somewhere in between, there"? Here's what happened: Back when Erik Larsen and I were doing Defenders, editor Tom Brevoort had a fill-in prepared, just in case. Mark Bagley had some time in his schedule, so Tom had Fabian Nicieza write up a plot—apparently very quickly, from what Fabian remembers—and then Mark drew it up, and it got put in a drawer. And then it was never used. Until now. As part of their whole "From the Marvel Vault" program, they've resurrected this story and finished it up. But there were a few problems along the way. First off, Fabian couldn't script it, because he's currently under contract at DC. So they asked me. I like writing the Defenders, I had a blast on that run with Erik, here's a chance to revisit it, and it's Mark Bagley art to boot, so why not? I agreed. Just send me the art and the plot. Well, they could send me the art. They don't have a copy of the plot. No problem, I'll just ask Fabian. No, he doesn't have one either. Lost in a hard-drive crash, years ago. And to make matters worse, Fabian doesn't even remember what the story was. He remembers that he wrote it—probably got the job on Friday and had a plot in by Monday or Tuesday—but he doesn't have a clue what the details of the story are. Even the art doesn't jog his memory beyond, "Yeah, Mark sure did a nice job, didn't he?" Mark doesn't remember much more. It was years ago. So I look over the art, and Mark Bagley did indeed do a very nice job. And he's a good enough storyteller that I can piece together an outline of what the story must be, at least in the basics. But the bits where explanations happen, where the texture and detail go that make it more than just a simple structure? Haven't a clue. So I have to come up with a story to fit the art. A new story. One that might bear some resemblance to what Fabian intended, at least at the big structural moments, but other than that, it's wide open. And as I keep looking through the art, I get an idea. A pretty demented idea, really, based on one cryptic panel late in the book (You'll know it when you see it. The script for that panel is "HTNN--!"). But it's an idea that, demented as it is, won't go away. And actually, I'm thinking, it could be kinda fun... I tell Fabian the idea, mostly as a joke. But he laughs, and says that it sounds like a hoot, and it might even be better than whatever his original story was. And I tell Rachel Pinnelas, who's editing it, and she cracks up, and says "Do it, do it." So I do it. It's not what Fabian plotted, not by any means. It's very strange. It has a very old, very dumb joke about a hot dog vendor in it. It has the Hulk building sandcastles. A near-pointless cameo by Empress Lilandra. And I had a blast writing it. I think readers are going to have just as much fun with it. The Lady Dorma scene alone should be worth the price of admission. [Note: Lady Dorma was not even in the original version.] So be warned. And order up! Source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 So, Rise of Arsenal won a Prism Award which are given for “recognizing the accurate depiction of substance abuse and mental illness: prevention, treatment and recovery in film, television, interactive, music, DVD, and comic book entertainment.” Huh. Right, note to self, if I want to win an award, include drug induced sessions of people using household pets as weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I suppose it helps if you've never read a good comic, which I'm sure the people handing out this award haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I should probably have been doing something else today, but my 3 omnibus editions of Bendis & Maleev's run on Daredevil all came in the mail. I read the entire thing. It's still phenomenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elnino14 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 I should probably have been doing something else today, but my 3 omnibus editions of Bendis & Maleev's run on Daredevil all came in the mail. I read the entire thing. It's still phenomenal. Jesus where'd you get that? It must have cost you a fortune, considering at least one of them are out of print? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 I should probably have been doing something else today, but my 3 omnibus editions of Bendis & Maleev's run on Daredevil all came in the mail. I read the entire thing. It's still phenomenal. Jesus where'd you get that? It must have cost you a fortune, considering at least one of them are out of print? They weren't the hardcovers, they were just the softcover omnibus trades. Got them for just under £50 off Amazon. Substantial cost, but it was totally worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 They weren't the hardcovers, they were just the softcover omnibus trades. Got them for just under £50 off Amazon. Substantial cost, but it was totally worth it. I have the first volume, been meaning to pick up the other two. But for about £16 a volume, it's pretty damn good value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elnino14 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 They weren't the hardcovers, they were just the softcover omnibus trades. Got them for just under £50 off Amazon. Substantial cost, but it was totally worth it. I have the first volume, been meaning to pick up the other two. But for about £16 a volume, it's pretty damn good value. What are you waiting for, it's like the best run ever (of course I'm biased, I absolutely love DD) Are you talking about the Ultimate collections? I was going to say, because those Harcover Omnibuses are mighty pricey. I have the Trades, all 10 of them or so. Such a fucking awesome run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 What are you waiting for, it's like the best run ever (of course I'm biased, I absolutely love DD) Are you talking about the Ultimate collections? I was going to say, because those Harcover Omnibuses are mighty pricey. I have the Trades, all 10 of them or so. Such a fucking awesome run. I'm waiting to have the spare money to just pick up volumes 2 and 3. I have the first volume. And really enjoyed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Are you talking about the Ultimate collections? Yeah, they were listed as Omnibi but they do say Ultimate on the side. I can never keep all these different editions straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venneh Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 The Rob Granito story just got the most freakin' bizzare twist possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 There isn't a word to describe how desperate, stupid, and insane these people are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I haven't read / heard Tom's original statement, but if that's what he said, I agree with it. At least angry fans are talking. No one wants to produce a product that results in a "meh" or zero word of mouth. Also, this comic strip seems to imply that Marvel actively tries to piss off its fans, which, outside of very few examples, I doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 In some cases I agree, but I think it would have been far better for Marvel to have a 6 issue story with no real arc or consequence than have the atrocious 'Sins Part' story. Seriously, it was roughly the equivalent to if it turned out that Catwoman's baby was actually the Jokers. IF the fans are angry and you're ok with that fine, but remember that it's a part of the continuity of Marvel comics now, there's no removing it for a lot time to come. Retconning isn't something you can do straight away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 In some cases I agree, but I think it would have been far better for Marvel to have a 6 issue story with no real arc or consequence than have the atrocious 'Sins Part' story. Seriously, it was roughly the equivalent to if it turned out that Catwoman's baby was actually the Jokers. IF the fans are angry and you're ok with that fine, but remember that it's a part of the continuity of Marvel comics now, there's no removing it for a lot time to come. Retconning isn't something you can do straight away. This. In my opinion, I'd rather have a "meh" story than one that's so screwed up it makes me angry. Of course, this isn't factoring in the fact that you also need good stories to keep the readers going, otherwise no one keeps reading. So, technically, the choice would either be to have "good stories and ones that piss off the fans" or "good stories and ones that bore the fans." I'd rather be bored for a few months than have the overall storyline screwed over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Yeah, bored fans might quit reading, but angry fans will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venneh Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I believe the exact statement was "We'd rather have angry fans than bored fans, cause anger sells." I'll find the exact quote after class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 On the short term, maybe. But people won't stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venneh Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Here we are. From a recent Formspring Q&A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think the problem there is that he seems to be saying "sales matter more than telling good stories." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Well they did hire Jeph Loeb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Well, in the end, they're running a business. If telling good stories mattered more than what sells, Arrested Development would still be on TV, Deadpool Corps wouldn't have gotten a second issue, Twilight would be bargain book shit, Avatar would have bombed at the box office, and Scott Pilgrim would have been one of the highest grossing films of 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koete Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 and Scott Pilgrim would have been one of the highest grossing films of 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 and all would be right with the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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