KnightWing Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I thought Superman was a citizen of the world, not the United States. Well, he lives in Metropolis, and is a member of the Justice League of America. He was raised in America, and his values come from the American heartland. So while he's definitely a hero to the rest of the world, that doesn't make him not an American. Plus, I mean, In the story, Superman took part in a protest in Tehran. It got construed that Superman was acting on the President's behalf. This seems to be Superman's response to that. He's renouncing citizenship so his actions, if it happens to be intervening in stopping a war atrocity or just stopping someone from getting hit by a car, don't come back to burn his home country. Basically, the overall theme of the story is Superman's view of the world is too small, that he's been looking at the macro when he needs to look at the micro.See now, that reads to me like total crap. Superman does not serve any government; that's been said time and time again. If I went to Tehran and took part in a protest, would it be assumed that I was acting on the President's behalf? Sure, it's different because Superman is well-known as a powerful American icon. But honestly, all it would take is for Superman and the President to deny any type of partnership. It just smacks of unnecessary PC crap. Why would he literally need to come out and essentially say "I am not an American"? Is he not going to fly right back to Metropolis and stay with the JLA? If he is, then why would any country believe his verbal declaration of non-citizenship anyway? I dunno, it wasn't the best of the stories in #900 and, like I said, I don't see such a sweeping change in a character happening in what is essentially a back-up not being written by one of the regular writers of the either Superman book.Yeah, no, I'm sure you're right about that. I'm not worried for the future of Superman at all. But still, not everyone's going to realize that, or be okay with the fact that DC let this slide at all. Just in the last 9 hours or so, I've heard from about a dozen lifelong Superman comic fans who say they're stopping reading the book. And a few of them have been reading every issue since the late 70s. EDIT: It really only comes off as negative if you think that being American is integral to Superman and the values he represents. Which it isn't. Yes, yes it is. Very, very much so. "The American Way" does not suppose that America is a more perfect nation than every other, but rather it's the idea that Superman takes the positive ideals behind America and brings them forth to their fullest positive extent. It's highly integral to who he is as a character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 You do get that he's protecting America, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 So the hero is sacrificing something that he loves, to protect the very thing that sacrifice symbolizes. I don't think it's brilliant, but I wouldn't say it's out of character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 So the hero is sacrificing something that he loves, to protect the very thing that sacrifice symbolizes. I don't think it's brilliant, but I wouldn't say it's out of character. I would like to point out that Captain America did essentially the same thing. And if you think that Superman represents America more than Cap, then, well...sorry about that brain damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Oh, sorry, I misread what you meant by "protecting." See now, I don't see him renouncing his citizenship as protecting America in any way. Let's think about it logically. Why would any nation assume that Superman represents the government? Or, indeed, why any hero from any country would ever represent the leadership of any nation? Granted, it's different because Superman has a tendency to stand next to American flags all the time, but still. It's been established that Superman does not represent the U.S. government any more than any other non-government citizen does. The only real logical "threat" to America is that foreign nations might have problems with Superman, then point the finger at the U.S. for harboring him. But how does Superman symbolically renouncing his citizenship help that? Is he going to move away from Metropolis or try to rename the JLA? If he's still constantly hanging around in Metropolis (which he's publicly referred to as his "home"), then no one will think of him differently, and America is still "at risk". I would like to point out that Captain America did essentially the same thing. And if you think that Superman represents America more than Cap, then, well...sorry about that brain damage. I'd also point out that during Civil War, Cap didn't renounce America or change his costume. He recognized the difference between America as an ideal and America as a current government. He fought for "the American way" while not agreeing with America's current political status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I would like to point out that Captain America did essentially the same thing. And if you think that Superman represents America more than Cap, then, well...sorry about that brain damage. I'd also point out that during Civil War, Cap didn't renounce America or change his costume. He recognized the difference between America as an ideal and America as a current government. He fought for "the American way" while not agreeing with America's current political status. I'm not talking about Civil War. I'm talking about this and thisspecifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm not talking about Civil War. I'm talking about this and thisspecifically. From the article on Nomad: "At the conclusion of Captain America #184 (April, 1975) Rogers returns to the role of Captain America when he realizes that he could champion America's ideals without blindly supporting its government." That's the kind of distinction that Superman made in the comics decades ago. What about when Lex Luthor was president? He sure as hell wasn't in agreement with that government, but still believed in America. (BTW, sorry for my double-post earlier; I'm having horrible net issues.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 So, un-aligning yourself with your own country is necessary to do the right thing sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Un-aligning with the government, yes, absolutely. America was founded upon the idea that a government sometimes must be fought against in order to preserve the ideals of the people. I think there's a difference between renouncing a government whose decisions you don't agree with and renouncing your home nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothian Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I don't see what all the fuss is about. America isn't all that great... *Ducks K-Dubs having a patriotic meltdown by walking into the cinema to watch Thor* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Also, if this is true Just in the last 9 hours or so, I've heard from about a dozen lifelong Superman comic fans who say they're stopping reading the book. And a few of them have been reading every issue since the late 70s. Then you really need to stop attending those Over-reactors Anonymous meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I quit back when Superman Red offended my American sensibilities. What is he, some kinda Commie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 *Ducks K-Dubs having a patriotic meltdown by walking into the cinema to watch Thor* Actually, I had more of a reaction to the fact that you went to see Thor without me. Also, if this is true Just in the last 9 hours or so, I've heard from about a dozen lifelong Superman comic fans who say they're stopping reading the book. And a few of them have been reading every issue since the late 70s. Then you really need to stop attending those Over-reactors Anonymous meetings It's a bit overreacting, sure, but when you consider the fact that there are millions of people out there who grew up with George Reeves (and Christopher Reeve) constantly repeating the fact that "TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND THE AMERICAN WAY" was the very basis of Superman as a character, it's understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 One more before I'm out of here: It's a bit overreacting, sure, but when you consider the fact that there are millions of people out there who grew up with George Reeves (and Christopher Reeve) constantly repeating the fact that "TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND THE AMERICAN WAY" was the very basis of Superman as a character, it's understandable. And yet these people never thought to ask to see Superman's long form birth certificate? Seriously though, if you've been reading Superman for years and THIS moment is the time you decide to stop reading, then you must really like some shitty comics. Also, Dubs: As a Communist, I'm offended that he went against the ideals of the motherland at the end of that book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I thought Superman was a citizen of the world, not the United States. Well, he lives in Metropolis, and is a member of the Justice League of America. He was raised in America, and his values come from the American heartland. So while he's definitely a hero to the rest of the world, that doesn't make him not an American. What I mean is, I thought there was a story a while back where he was literally made a world citizen. That said, yes, Clark is an American citizen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 This also happened in Action #900: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prez Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 This also happened in Action #900: Christ. Don't get me started on that shit. Let's just pretend we didn't see that, k? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 This also happened in Action #900: Christ. Don't get me started on that shit. Let's just pretend we didn't see that, k? Considering who's writing it, I don't really care aall that much. I trust the writer to make this awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Seriously though, if you've been reading Superman for years and THIS moment is the time you decide to stop reading, then you must really like some shitty comics. I'm guessing this is just the icing on the cake of New Krypton, War of the Supermen, and Grounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venneh Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 An article from Wired got it right on the head for me: In an age rife with immigration paranoia, it’s refreshing to see an alien refugee tell the United States that it’s as important to him as any other country on Earth — which in turn is as important to Superman as any other planet in the multiverse. The genius of Superman is that he belongs to everyone, for the dual purposes of peace and protection. He’s above ephemeral geopolitics and nationalist concerns, a universal agent unlike any other found in pop culture. The finest moment in Action Comics No. 900 comes when Goyer makes that exquisitely clear to everyone. Soure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 I read the issue of Action Comics #900, and the Superman thing, and I have to ask. What's the big fucking deal. Superman denounced American citizenship, because he doesn't want his actions to come across as him acting on America's behalf. Therefore saving the country a massive fucking headache with him doing crazy things, like trying to save the fucking world. Also, why is nobody talking about the Lex Luthor main feature? That was a very interesting end, to the very enjoyable Lex Luthor storyline. And although, I don't care about Doomsday, I'm going to give it a chance, as Paul Cornell has done a solid job with Action Comics over the past ten issues, and deserves a chance to actually show if he can make a Doomsday storyline interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothian Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Embrace the positivity, Austen!! EMBRACE IT!!! Changing the subject slightly, I've caught up on one of the trades I picked up at C2E2. Teen Titans: Beast Boys & Girls is exactly what I wanted it to be - stories that centre around Beast Boy, having followed Teeen Titans with WFP. They're good for what they are (it's Geoff Johns' era) and I liked the art. Next on the docket: Two of Darwyn Cooke's stories starring The Spirit. One of which is a Batman crossover and co-written by Jeph Loeb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Embrace the positivity, Austen!! EMBRACE IT!!! I've tried it. It was good, but nothing special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koete Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Next on the docket: Two of Darwyn Cooke's stories starring The Spirit. One of which is a Batman crossover and co-written by Jeph Loeb. That issue is probably the only Jeph Loeb book I like (because of Darwyn Cooke, but still). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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